I stumbled on this chart while preparing for an upcoming flight to Knoxville:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218HIL5L.PDF

I see some unfamiliar graphics on this chart, namely the dotted lines in both
the profile and plan views, and the candy-striping at the top and bottom of the
page. I perused the legend at

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/frntmatter.pdf

but don't see any description or explanation of these graphic elements.

The procedure is named "HI-ILS...". What is that? High altitude? High speed? I
notice that there are published transitions starting at 13000 feet, and also
that there are minima listed for approach category E, whereas most approaches
seem to show only categories ABCD.

A PDF search of the AIM at http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/AIM.pdf for the string
"HI-ILS" produced no hits.

A google search of rec.aviation.ifr produced some hits, including the
information that a HI-ILS approach is a military procedure, and noting that
"...the approaches in question are not published in the civil US Terminal
Procedures Publications". I guess that's now changed.

So if these approaches are now published in the civil publications, shouldn't
the graphics be described in the corresponding legend publication? Anyway, what
is the significance of the candy stripes and the dotted lines?

For reference, there is also a corresponding ILS approach to the same runway:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218IL5L.PDF

Might I ever fly a HI-ILS approach in my Mooney?

Dave

Dave Butler > wrote:

> I stumbled on this chart while preparing for an upcoming flight to Knoxville:

This type of approach and chart was just published for my home airport of
Syracuse, NY, too:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/00411HI28.PDF

Interestingly, JeppView (electronic chart delivery) does not include these
charts for SYR.


--
Peter

On 05/04/06 08:45, Dave Butler wrote:
> I stumbled on this chart while preparing for an upcoming flight to Knoxville:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218HIL5L.PDF
>
> I see some unfamiliar graphics on this chart, namely the dotted lines in both
> the profile and plan views, and the candy-striping at the top and bottom of the
> page. I perused the legend at
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/frntmatter.pdf
>
> but don't see any description or explanation of these graphic elements.
>
> The procedure is named "HI-ILS...". What is that? High altitude? High speed? I
> notice that there are published transitions starting at 13000 feet, and also
> that there are minima listed for approach category E, whereas most approaches
> seem to show only categories ABCD.
>
> A PDF search of the AIM at http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/AIM.pdf for the string
> "HI-ILS" produced no hits.
>
> A google search of rec.aviation.ifr produced some hits, including the
> information that a HI-ILS approach is a military procedure, and noting that
> "...the approaches in question are not published in the civil US Terminal
> Procedures Publications". I guess that's now changed.
>
> So if these approaches are now published in the civil publications, shouldn't
> the graphics be described in the corresponding legend publication? Anyway, what
> is the significance of the candy stripes and the dotted lines?

I don't know about the striping, but the dotted lines appear to be showing
you that you need to descend to 6000, then to 3000 while on the DME arc.
Although, I wonder if there is any other significance to them.

>
> For reference, there is also a corresponding ILS approach to the same runway:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218IL5L.PDF
>
> Might I ever fly a HI-ILS approach in my Mooney?
>
> Dave
>
>



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"HI-ILS approaches are designed to transition from the high altitude
enroute structure to the low altitude portion of an ILS/LOC Vortac or
Tacan final approach. They are referred to as Jet Penetrations."

Gerd

Military fighter aircraft don't want to spend time and fuel
at low altitude, these approaches minimize fuel and time .




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"gwengler" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| "HI-ILS approaches are designed to transition from the
high altitude
| enroute structure to the low altitude portion of an
ILS/LOC Vortac or
| Tacan final approach. They are referred to as Jet
Penetrations."
|
| Gerd
|

"Hi" procedures are for military aircraft, primarily fighters. NACO
charts them when they are published for a civil airport. Jeppesen does not.

Dave Butler wrote:

> I stumbled on this chart while preparing for an upcoming flight to
> Knoxville:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218HIL5L.PDF
>
> I see some unfamiliar graphics on this chart, namely the dotted lines in
> both the profile and plan views, and the candy-striping at the top and
> bottom of the page. I perused the legend at
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/frntmatter.pdf
>
> but don't see any description or explanation of these graphic elements.
>
> The procedure is named "HI-ILS...". What is that? High altitude? High
> speed? I notice that there are published transitions starting at 13000
> feet, and also that there are minima listed for approach category E,
> whereas most approaches seem to show only categories ABCD.
>
> A PDF search of the AIM at http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/AIM.pdf for the
> string "HI-ILS" produced no hits.
>
> A google search of rec.aviation.ifr produced some hits, including the
> information that a HI-ILS approach is a military procedure, and noting
> that "...the approaches in question are not published in the civil US
> Terminal
> Procedures Publications". I guess that's now changed.
>
> So if these approaches are now published in the civil publications,
> shouldn't the graphics be described in the corresponding legend
> publication? Anyway, what is the significance of the candy stripes and
> the dotted lines?
>
> For reference, there is also a corresponding ILS approach to the same
> runway:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218IL5L.PDF
>
> Might I ever fly a HI-ILS approach in my Mooney?
>
> Dave
>
>

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1146757297.874015@sj-nntpcache-5...
>
> I stumbled on this chart while preparing for an upcoming flight to
> Knoxville:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218HIL5L.PDF
>
> I see some unfamiliar graphics on this chart, namely the dotted lines in
> both the profile and plan views, and the candy-striping at the top and
> bottom of the page. I perused the legend at
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/frntmatter.pdf
>
> but don't see any description or explanation of these graphic elements.
>
> The procedure is named "HI-ILS...". What is that? High altitude? High
> speed? I notice that there are published transitions starting at 13000
> feet, and also that there are minima listed for approach category E,
> whereas most approaches seem to show only categories ABCD.
>
> A PDF search of the AIM at http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/AIM.pdf for the
> string "HI-ILS" produced no hits.
>
> A google search of rec.aviation.ifr produced some hits, including the
> information that a HI-ILS approach is a military procedure, and noting
> that "...the approaches in question are not published in the civil US
> Terminal
> Procedures Publications". I guess that's now changed.
>
> So if these approaches are now published in the civil publications,
> shouldn't the graphics be described in the corresponding legend
> publication? Anyway, what is the significance of the candy stripes and the
> dotted lines?
>
> For reference, there is also a corresponding ILS approach to the same
> runway:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218IL5L.PDF
>
> Might I ever fly a HI-ILS approach in my Mooney?
>

Unlikely. These are military approaches, the HI is for high altitude.

It says it is an airforce chart, presumably for use at a mixed us airport.
"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1146757297.874015@sj-nntpcache-5...
>I stumbled on this chart while preparing for an upcoming flight to
>Knoxville:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218HIL5L.PDF
>
> I see some unfamiliar graphics on this chart, namely the dotted lines in
> both the profile and plan views, and the candy-striping at the top and
> bottom of the page. I perused the legend at
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/frntmatter.pdf
>
> but don't see any description or explanation of these graphic elements.
>
> The procedure is named "HI-ILS...". What is that? High altitude? High
> speed? I notice that there are published transitions starting at 13000
> feet, and also that there are minima listed for approach category E,
> whereas most approaches seem to show only categories ABCD.
>
> A PDF search of the AIM at http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/AIM.pdf for the
> string "HI-ILS" produced no hits.
>
> A google search of rec.aviation.ifr produced some hits, including the
> information that a HI-ILS approach is a military procedure, and noting
> that "...the approaches in question are not published in the civil US
> Terminal
> Procedures Publications". I guess that's now changed.
>
> So if these approaches are now published in the civil publications,
> shouldn't the graphics be described in the corresponding legend
> publication? Anyway, what is the significance of the candy stripes and the
> dotted lines?
>
> For reference, there is also a corresponding ILS approach to the same
> runway:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218IL5L.PDF
>
> Might I ever fly a HI-ILS approach in my Mooney?
>
> Dave
>
>

There's a dotted line on page 10 of the legend, in the STAR/DP section,
that is described as a "lost communications track". I wonder if it
applies to this chart.

Brien K. Meehan wrote:
> There's a dotted line on page 10 of the legend, in the STAR/DP section,
> that is described as a "lost communications track". I wonder if it
> applies to this chart.

Heh, obviously not. I assume your wondering was intended as didactic.

When I launched this thread, I thought this chart was published by NACO in the
Terminal Procedures book. It's not. It is available online, but not published in
the hardcopy volume.

Since I thought it was in the hardcopy book, I thought the graphics ought to be
explained in the TPP legend. Since it's not actually in the book, I guess it's
OK that the graphics are not explained.

Beware that online sources of approach procedures include approaches like this
one that are not published in the hardcopy.

Dave

Dave Butler wrote:
> I stumbled on this chart while preparing for an upcoming flight to
> Knoxville:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218HIL5L.PDF
>
> I see some unfamiliar graphics on this chart, namely the dotted lines in
> both the profile and plan views, and the candy-striping at the top and
> bottom of the page. I perused the legend at
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/frntmatter.pdf
>
> but don't see any description or explanation of these graphic elements.
>
> The procedure is named "HI-ILS...". What is that? High altitude? High
> speed? I notice that there are published transitions starting at 13000
> feet, and also that there are minima listed for approach category E,
> whereas most approaches seem to show only categories ABCD.
>
> A PDF search of the AIM at http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/AIM.pdf for the
> string "HI-ILS" produced no hits.
>
> A google search of rec.aviation.ifr produced some hits, including the
> information that a HI-ILS approach is a military procedure, and noting
> that "...the approaches in question are not published in the civil US
> Terminal
> Procedures Publications". I guess that's now changed.
>
> So if these approaches are now published in the civil publications,
> shouldn't the graphics be described in the corresponding legend
> publication? Anyway, what is the significance of the candy stripes and
> the dotted lines?
>
> For reference, there is also a corresponding ILS approach to the same
> runway:
>
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0604/00218IL5L.PDF
>
> Might I ever fly a HI-ILS approach in my Mooney?
>
> Dave
>
>
These are high altitude procedures published for the military unit (TN
ANG) at Knoxville. These procedures were built by the FAA specifically
for the military users at Knoxville. The criteria for military high
procedures also allow for different descent gradients and arc distances
than civil procedures.
You may also have noticed that some of the altitudes are depicted
differently than you may be used to (mandatory altitudes and "block"
altitudes vs minimum altitudes)
These aren't published in the normal FLIPS, just the High FLIPS that
have the black and white stripes on the edges.

John

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Dave Butler > wrote:
>
> > I stumbled on this chart while preparing for an upcoming flight to
Knoxville:
>
> This type of approach and chart was just published for my home airport of
> Syracuse, NY, too:
>
> http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/00411HI28.PDF
>
> Interestingly, JeppView (electronic chart delivery) does not include
these
> charts for SYR.
>
>
> --
> Peter

I've seen several of those to military bases in an old alaska TP book I
have... with segments of the approach at FL200, etc.. hehe!



--
Mike Teague - Vancouver WA, USA
-- Opie and Anthony - XM Satellite Radio - http://www.opieandanthony.com
-- Phil Hendrie = Radio Genius - http://www.philhendrieshow.com